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« No more snoozing this... | Main | The fall of the rising star of this... »

June 18, 2004

Comments

Moze

So Al Qaeda is in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia... Beheading another American...

And we know Al Qaeda was in Afghanistan. And Al Qaeda was in Pakistan. And Al Qaeda was in Iran. And Al Qaeda was in Malaysia. And Al Qaeda was in Singapore. And Al Qaeda was in the Phillipines. And Al Qaeda was in the Sudan. And Al Qaeda was in Somolia. And Al Qaeda was in Spain. And Al Qaeda was in the US...

But Al Qaeda was/is NOT in Iraq? Saddam was not in bed with these sub-human scum? Give me a freaking break. I give no credibility to anyone peddling the moronic denial of this connection.

When is keeping a promise evil? When the promise comes out of an Al Qaeda pie hole.

I think the House of Saud has a choice to make today. I think they’ve got one chance to make the right one.

Outraged,

Dean Esmay

Just wait until you hear from the asswipes who think america "provoked" this action.

mhking

Anyone want to make bank on how soon Ted Rall scrawls a "pitchur" of how this was Bush's fault?

Jack

Good post, Ms. Milk. This war will take a generation, but it will be a long and painful generation if our generation takes too long to figure out that its actually in a war.

jbs



One of the ideas to come out of Attorney General John Ashcroft's recent warnings about terrorism is that al Qaeda, by plotting a high-profile attack on American soil, hopes to affect the outcome of the US presidential election. For conservatives, the implications of this notion are clear. Republican pundits suggest that any move to oppose President Bush and his war in Iraq constitutes an effort to appease the terrorists.

It is a perverse notion, and one that demands a response from American progressives. Those of us who oppose the disastrous foreign policy of the current administration must make a strong statement both to terrorists who think they would be better off without President Bush and to conservatives trying to manipulate this situation for political gain.

A declaration for a progressive fight against terror would go something like this:

To Osama bin Laden, al Qaeda, and allied terrorists,

Progressives in the US and around the world abhor you. We will defeat you.

We will defeat you by uniting the world against you rather than alienating our allies with unilateral arrogance. We will defeat you by maintaining a focused, cooperative hunt for criminals who have committed crimes against humanity. We will make stopping your operations an unrelenting preoccupation, and will not divert attention to preeemptive wars in pursuit of long pent-up political goals.

We will defeat you by ending the invasions that stoke anti-American hatred and provide you with fresh sources of new recruits. We will defeat you by finding a just resolution to the Palestinian conflict rather than endorsing the extremist policies of Ariel Sharon and his militaristic wing of the Israeli government. And we will defeat you by not forgetting our pledge of aid for the reconstruction of Afghanistan.

We will defeat you by running a fact-based intelligence program, rather than a faith-based one, and by telling the truth to our own people and to the international community. We will not exact revenge against those who expose our lies by outing CIA agents engaged in stopping illicit weapons transfers.

We will defeat you by reversing past neglect of the nuclear stockpiles built up by the former Soviet Union during the Cold War, which present your greatest opportunity to acquire nuclear implements. We will invest the funds and the effort required to secure and dispose of this material, placing it out of your reach forever.

We will defeat you by opposing all dictators and not allying with them when convenient. We will support movements for human rights throughout the world. We will stand in solidarity with those building local resistance to oppression. We will aid their efforts to create lasting, participatory democracy in their countries.

We will defeat you by standing up to weapons manufacturers and outlawing the sale of arms to tyrants. We will unequivocally back the principles of the Geneva Convention and will steadfastly work to end all torture. We will reaffirm the mechanisms of international law. We will end US opposition to the International Criminal Court, the Land Mine Treaty, and the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. We will recommit the US to the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty and support a strong UN Small Arms Agreement. We will live up to our commitments under the Non-Proliferation Treaty to take honest steps toward nuclear disarmament, rather than building new and more powerful nuclear weapons.

We will defeat you by eliminating the conditions of inequality and desperation that aid your operations. We will provide real foreign aid to countries in need without demanding that they privatize their economies or allow our corporations to enter. We will create a system of trade based on fair labor standards and strong environmental protections, one that honors diversity and is responsive to human need. We will defeat you by fighting for a world without empire.

We will oppose what you believe in by promoting women's rights across the globe. We will offer assistance to local women's organizations and support active networks of civil society. We will respect reproductive freedom and lift the global gag rule that denies US aid to foreign health organizations that provide abortion counseling or referrals. We will promote societies that respect religious pluralism and will not advance theocratic crusades. We will stand for freedom of speech; we will oppose the criminalization of dissent; and we will not impugn the patriotism of those who would criticize our policies.

We will do all of this not for revenge, nor for power. We will not do this in the name of God, although it will be motivated by our deepest faith. We will do this simply for justice and peace, and for a safer world.



noodge

I was just thinking about terrorism yesterday. What happens when they just decide that killing small groups of people isn't enough and decide to take out whole continents (or the whole world) at a time? They are willing die for their beliefs (if not for simple revenge) so there's no reason to think that a nuclear war would never happen. Or what happens when they decide that since we keep sending troops over to attack them, they're going to do the same right back to us? Our country has so many people and buildings and homes crammed into every available inch that there is just no room to have a war without the damage being terrifyingly devistating. It scares the living crap out of me to think about it. They have no remorse... I think that just might be the worst part.

Moze

Jbs, if I read your words correctly, you’ve come to the table. I don’t think it’s my place to thank you, though I do. Kinda late, but that’s OK.

You may stand beside me when it is time to shed blood.

The dogs of war nip at our heels. There will come a day when I, or you, must sacrifice life to save our children. I am prepared. Are you?

cgs

I realize these sub humans that I might add are so chicken sh#$, that they need to hide behind a mask, are radical right wings, but this has gone way to far. I listen to this country and the world vocalize on the harassment and "cruelty" of the Al Qaeda hostages. Have one of these hostages been beheaded? These right wings believe in "eye for and eye" and and have not shown any true peaceful Muslim behavior with their barbaric behavior. And where do most Americans stand? The liberals of this country would rather protest against the USA concerning the treatment of the same hostages, that if free would have been in the video's and pictures of beheadings holding the knife. The United States and World need to stand up and DO SOMETHING immediatly. These barbaric dogs need to treated in the same manner they treated their hostages. The Iraqi goverment needs to make a stand of no tolerance of this type of blackmail behavior. I hope people have to courage to make the right choice against these low life barbaric PIGS!!! cgs

rb

"We are dealing with people who have no value for human life."

So we will kill more of them than they of us.

rb

Ooops:- posted too early!

Furthermore:

"We are dealing with evil. We are dealing with people who have no value for human life. And pretending that it doesn't exist isn't going to make it go away."

That's exactly what Islamic extremists are saying about America!

It is also likely that Islamic extremists are saying this to Islamic moderates with regard to the Abu Ghraib photos.

"I'll be back with the video of this horrendous atrocity. For now, here are the photos. I recommend that everyone take a look for a reality check."

Do you not see the irony?

tallglassofmilk

Do you not see your own ignorance of the difference between killing for fanatical religious pursuits and defending onself from succumbing to that fate? Perhaps your disbelief in a god has given you a lack of understanding of those who believe in a God. I pity you.

As an appeaser of radical Islamic terrorism and a global Islamic vision, you are now the sworn enemy. Any future communications may be hostile.

rb

"Do you not see your own ignorance of the difference between killing for fanatical religious pursuits and defending onself from succumbing to that fate?"

Can you not see that radical Islamists, in their own misguided way, may regard their OWN violent actions as "self defense"? Sorry, but I just see extremists on both sides.

"Perhaps your disbelief in a god has given you a lack of understanding of those who believe in a God. I pity you."

Ha! So I'm an "unbeliever" (or perhaps.... an "infidel")? Again, can you not see the irony?

Besides, the Islamists you despise so much DO believe in God, so surely YOU would understand them better than I?

Furthermore, the God they bow to is one who revealed himself to Abraham - the very same GOD of Christianity and Judaism! You all worship the same GOD!

"As an appeaser of radical Islamic terrorism and a global Islamic vision, you are now the "sworn enemy". Any future communications may be hostile."

Dear, oh dear, oh dear. And you, your teeth now bared in threat, sound little different from the hateful extremists you claim to despise!

Hatred, intolerance and fear are your true enemies. Not me.

tallglassofmlik

[Can you not see that radical Islamists, in their own misguided way, may regard their OWN violent actions as "self defense"? Sorry, but I just see extremists on both sides.]

At least you can see they're misguided. And because they're misguided they won't stop killing those who don't share their beliefs. So we must defend ourselves. When the jihad killings stop, our need to be on the offensive in order to defend ourselves stops. (Did you skip school the day they taught logical reasoning skills?)

[Ha! So I'm an "unbeliever" (or perhaps.... an "infidel")?]

That's what you say, although I'm beginning to think your torch might be lit for Allah.

[Besides, the Islamists you despise so much DO believe in God, so surely YOU would understand them better than I?]

Based on the discussions we've had here, it would appear so. I have experienced a passion you simply cannot comprehend, which clearly helps me relate to my enemy better than you do.

[Hatred, intolerance and fear are your true enemies. Not me.]

Right! The hatred, intolerace and fear that lives in the hearts of terrorists worldwide (in the name of any or no god) are my true enemies. Not like I needed you to clarify that for me...

But you we're you probably talking about my hatred, intolerance and fear?

Then I'd have to say you are definitely wrong again, rb. I have don't have hatred, in fact as it's the emotion I'm least familiar with. That might have something to do with my love for God. My love for the world is beyond your comprehension and my ultimate dream is that we eradicate every last weed of terrorism worldwide so the seeds of peace can grow.

Fear an enemy? Sorry. Not here. Here my fear motivates me to help others see the light. I'd say that you're the one they have spoooked into appeasement.

You are right about this... I do have intolerance for people who want to kill me because they have no tolerance for me. And I make no apologies for that.

Particularly in light of the fact that a new generation of children are being brainwashed right now into believing I'm their enemy, although I've done nothing to them, and being trained to kill me.

Since you ARE so tolerant, I only hope fate leads them your doorstep before mine.

Now please, go play with your own kind. There's no appeasement here!

rb

Fine! I'm off!

Just remember that everything you said, your hopes for the world, your love of god, your concern for children WORKS BOTH WAYS.

"I do have intolerance for people who want to kill me because they have no tolerance for me."

That's exactly the way many Muslims perceive the West! Who is right? Where does the circle end?


I thought I'd drop you a link regarding "Abrahamic" religions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions


Now I'll sign off with a link to a well known song and a portion from it.

http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/withgod.html

So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.

Mamamontezz

Sorry, Dylan had it wrong, or at the very least incomplete. Which is not surprising. He rarely did get much right, choosing instead to be artistic.

"If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war."

He will. Everything it its time. The truer question is not the time, but the outcome. Merely an end is no real outcome but is merely a postponement.

But back on track, have the Saudi Keystone Cops found that poor man's body yet? How horrific that must be for his family to know he's gone, to see pictures that must do nothing but torment them, and then find out that the body is missing.

TD

YET AGAIN, ONCE "AMERICA" REALIZES AND ENDS THE EVER PRESENT AND CONTINUAL INJUSTICES WITHIN "HER" OWN BORDERS, THIS CRY OF EVIL AGAINST THE RIGHTEOUS IS JUST MORE PROPAGANDA AND DIS-INFORMATION. WHEN WE RIGHT THE WRONGS HERE AT HOME, ONLY THEN DO WE HAVE ANY TRUE STAKE IN THE SUPPOSED QUEST FOR DEMOCRACY.

Pat

I have only one request to some of the comments above: please refrain from the use of the word/expression "subhuman" for the terrorists and Islamofacists.

The use of the expression "subhuman" is clearly of Nazi origin and was used for their racial theory about the superiority of the Aryan race compared to Jews or Russians. Millions of lives have been anihilated due to this believe that they were only "subhuman" not worth thinking about more in crushing than a bug or a pest.. For once, if you use this expression you place yourself on one stage with the Nazi, which you certainly don't want to do. Secondly, you dishonorate the memory of all those who were killed as subhumans by the Nazi.

No "Cheerio" from me today, just feel to sad about another pointless, cruel murder. You know, TGOM, that I do not agree with you on some of the issues around the Iraq war and the war on terrorists. But sometimes it is very hard not get too angry and not to develop any "all-inclusive" hatred on the Muslims that applaud this murder.

Moze

Pat,

I have thought carefully about your request today—to refrain from referring to the Al Qaeda members who beheaded Nicholas Berg and Paul Johnson as "sub-human." I respect your view. I apologize for my badly chosen adjective.

After careful thought, it occurred to me that a beheading is well within the capabilities of a human being. Were this not the case, it could not have happened last Friday, nor last May 11 (will our Korean brother being held captive at this very hour survive?).

Hence, I guess ritualized beheading is something I will never find ‘proper’ term to characterize. So just what is it that gives the mind permission to cut the head off a living human being?

Oh, wait, how about “evil,” “malevolence,” “wickedness,” “iniquity,” “sin,” “vice,” “immorality,” “depravity,” “corruption,” “decadence,” “degeneracy”… Nah, none of them really quite do it, do they?

Respectfully,

Pat

Moze: thanks for your lines. It comes hard to me too to find the right choice of words for those cruel and cowardly murders.... but I see you got my point.

Sadly enough beheading and - even worse - slicing of throats is too common in human history. In Tunesia or Algery (I am not absolutely certain about which country, but I believe it was Algery) for nearly a decade Islam fanatics went through villages and cities and cut the throats of people who they believed to be unfaithfull to Allah. In many cases they were young women who just wanted to get a better eductation or liberal Muslims. The gruesome detail about this throat cutting was, that the murderers deliberately sliced the throats in such a way, that death comes only after agonizing minutes of trying to breath without being able and slowly, much too slowly loosing consciousness. The pervert reason behind this is, that the more agonizing the death is, the better your sins are forgiven and thus the murders tell themselves that they do their victims a service in cleaning them for heaven to come. Unbelievable, isn't it?

But we Christians have done similar things way past to witches and non-believers and burning on a stake is also a long and agonizing death.....

I fear humans are just another kind of beast after all......

Cheerio from OLD Europe

skeeter

I say Bush was wrong from the beginning for entering us into his personal vendetta with Sadam, but we're in it so deal with it. The score is 3-0, three heads to none. Its time to fight violence with violence.Its time to stop being a bunch of pacifist pussies,this is war.It has spread to this country while our government agencies designed to protect us were sleeping at their desks.They need to deal with 9/11. It was their fault that happend as well. Get real, get professional and get even and stop losing this war with bullshit idealazations in your safe little world here.It won't stay safe with anti war protest and doging the truth. Any simpleton would know that.

skeeter

I say Bush was wrong from the beginning for entering us into his personal vendetta with Sadam, but we're in it so deal with it. The score is 3-0, three heads to none. Its time to fight violence with violence.Its time to stop being a bunch of pacifist pussies,this is war.It has spread to this country while our government agencies designed to protect us were sleeping at their desks.They need to deal with 9/11. It was their fault that happend as well. Get real, get professional and get even and stop losing this war with bullshit idealazations in your safe little world here.It won't stay safe with anti war protest and doging the truth. Any simpleton would know that.

Brad

Folks,

We must remember what we are dealing with here. These people have been fighting and killing each
other for thousands of years. They also simply hate Americans-this will never, ever be changed. Generations have been bred for it.

If anyone believes Islam is a peaceful religion-wake up! "Kill the nonbelievers, the infidels". Is this not what is written? This is a lose-lose proposition when dealing with individuals that have murdered these US citizens. They cannot be bargained with or negotiated with. They cannot be reasoned with. When the United States realized this we will be far better off.

I can't even refer to them as dogs-they are less than dogs and dogs don't deserve that bad of a rap.

My suggestion: First, lose the borders. If you want in to the US-apply and get in line. You may be cleared for entry after a long thorough background check.
Second, get out of the middle east-no support, no presence. This includes Israel-it has nothing we need.

Now if that does not satisfy the terrorists then the US should have a modified policy. If we trace any act of terrorist to a city in the Middle East-exterminate and level the entire city or region. Give them no excuse to kill us. If they still do-nuke them. It's time the US starts taking care of itself and invest funds and resources for America-not ungrateful, apathetic excuses for countries like Iraq. Those people have no respect for themselves-do you really think they care one ounce for anyone else!

The US will wake up sooner or later when dealing with this region. It make take more deaths, acts of terrorism, whatever until we wake up. But sooner or later we'll have to. You cannot make these people happy. They have an insatiable appetite for evil and we will never, ever change their minds.

The funny and remote possibility exists....all of this is done in the name of Allah. Everyone should always remember that in the end, we may find that God is nothing more than make-believe. And here we've been killing for thousands of years for what.....?

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